I really enjoyed my time with Angela on this interview. She has a great energy about her, calm and smooth, confident and humble. She has been in this acupuncture industry for a long time and has seen so much change – and she has managed to thrive through it all. She is a successful acupuncturist and business woman all wrapped into one package – perfect for us all to learn from, and why she is here to share her story, thoughts, experience and secrets to her success! Enjoy! ~ Spence
Acupuncture Licence 2000
Therapeutic Yoga Certification 2014
Health Coach Training
Transformational Coach and Mastery Level Coach Money Marketing and Soul Coach
CEO and Founder of the Integrative Fertility Institute: Fertility support and professional fertility coach training center
CEO and Founder of AcuBizConsulting: Helping entrepreneurs create educational programs and high ticket offers that support a bigger mission to change the world in a positive way. conscious capitalism
Creator of the EcoFertility Method Preconception Program 2013
Events: Business Adventure Retreat yearly event for entrepreneurs taking their business to the next level
Owner Zen Space Portland Oregon 2000-2013
Woodstock Wellness Center Portland Oregon 2006-present
Integrative Fertility Institute-online
AcuBizConsulting- online coaching and consulting
Spence: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Golden Podcast. I’m your host, Spence Pentland, and this is where we have interviews with world-class TCM community leaders so we can discover their stories, habits, psychology and secrets that led to their success. And today, we have the honor of being here with Angela Tisci. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast.
Angela: Of course.
Angela: My pleasure.
Spence: I’m going to just fly through a little bit of the CV that Angela sent me, this is our first time meeting too, so I’m excited to dive into getting to know you a little bit better. Like I said, I’ve seen you on Facebook, and I think that what you’re doing is great, your intention seems really, really pure and happy, and that’s a reflection of you, I assume. But Angela got her acupuncture license in 2000, she’s just telling me how much she’s seen change since then, which is mostly positive, I think. What were your words, everyone knows about acupuncture now at least, so that’s great, most people have an acupuncturist. You practice for quite some time, you got a therapeutic yoga certification in 2014, and since then, it seems like really have dived into a health coach training, transformational coaching at the mastery level, and money marketing and soul coaching, which is really great. You are the CEO and Founder of the Integrative Fertility Institute, which is near and dear to me as well. A fertility support and professional fertility coach training center, which is what that is. You are also the CEO and Founder of Acubizconsulting, which we’ll get into today, helping entrepreneurs, particularly acupuncturists, I assume, create educational programs and high ticket offers that support a bigger mission to change the world in a positive way, conscious capitalism you use, that’s great. You are also creator of the Eco-Fertility Method, preconception program since 2013, you hold Business Adventure Retreats yearly, which is for entrepreneurs to help bring their business to the next level, which is fantastic. I’d love to hear a bit about that. If you stay or check out the show notes, you’ll get links to all these things, so we’ll drive you back to getting more information from Angela here. Since 2000, you practiced at the Zen space in Portland. Yay! Portland! Love your city. I think half of my guests have been from Portland so far now that I think about it. You and Brad and then Jason, anyway, the other half of New York. Woodstock Wellness Center in Portland as well from 2006 to present, the Integrative Fertility Institute online and Acubizconsulting has been going for a while too. That’s online coaching and consulting primarily for acupuncturists, but I assume you work with wellness folks too.
Angela: Yeah. It just kind of evolved that way for sure.
Spence: Great. So, like I said earlier, discover the stories and habits in psychology, but to rewind back to the story. Like I said, most of us don’t come out of high school and enter into Chinese medicine, the undergraduate requirements for most of our programs. And so we come into Chinese medicine with a history, and I’d love to get the story, a little bit of what brought you there, and then from there, what kind of brought you to where you right now.
Angela: I studied psychology in my undergrad, and I think back in undergrad days, I always wanted to be a psychologist. I wanted to help people on a deep level and change their life. I worked in the field for a while after undergrad, and realized quickly that I did not want to do that, there’s a lot of bureaucracy and rules and all of these things that you have to follow, and being myself, I’m not too hip to the rule following. So, it wasn’t a good match. When I was looking for, okay, so what are my other options, graduate school, I was interested in medicine, I was interested in energy work and really tuning into how we could change the vibration of our physiology using everything, from sound to neural beats, just all kinds of things. A lot of my experience was in music, and being exposed to how music really changes the way you feel, the way your body responds, so I started going down the rabbit hole of quantum physics. And all of these things that were really kind of just coming out around that time and becoming popular, and when I found acupuncture and oriental medicine, I was like, oh my gosh, it’s like, I can stick a needle in someone and change their physiology. I don’t even have to talk to them. And that was really amazing because I was like, wow, this is going beyond, it’s like removing the barrier of having to go through a process to be able to change physiology. Like you can just stick a needle in someone, and they don’t have to believe it, they don’t have to care, it just works. And so that was really fascinating to me. I was like, oh my gosh, I can study this in a physical realm. Because I was looking into it like, how can I research this energy thing that I’m really interested in. It was so perfect when I found the acupuncture and oriental medicine. I was more interested in the energetics of it. To me, that was like, what’s the least we can do to make the biggest impacts. And that’s kind of how I want to run my business too and how I want my whole world to be, it’s what’s the least amount we can do to make the biggest impact. So, that’s kind of how that came about, and yeah, it was just a perfect fit for where I was at the moment in time where I came across it.
Spence: That’s a great quote, it’s the least amount of output you can manifest or manifest the most impact on the world. That’s fantastic. I love that.
Angela: There’s actually a metaphor, it’s, like, small hinges swing big doors.
Spence: Nice. I like that. It’s the Shao Yong, it’s the pivot, it’s the liver, gallbladder, anyway. Where did you study? You studied in Portland?
Angela: Yeah, I studied in Portland at OCOM.
Spence: And then you got your license in 2000. Backing up a little bit, what do you think were your influences that got you to be so interested in the realm of energy and mind, body-spirit healing? Was it something from your mom or…?
Angela: Truthfully, it was a boyfriend that I had at the time. He was a metaphysical preacher, and so we would do a lot of meditation and journeying, and you know, we were young so that whole world was so interesting to me to be able to meditate for long periods of time and be able to tap into your subconscious and figure things out in this way. I was definitely interested in it. We would spend a lot of time across from each other, meditating, and kind of just going on these journeys. And I think that’s what really got me into it, and he was also a musician. We did a lot of like these binaural beats, and like how that changes physiology, researching the Tibetan monks, the sound that they would make and how that changes physiology. I mean, there’s actual research on this stuff. That’s really quite fascinating, even this whale sounds. I mean, that’s why they use all that stuff in the meditation CDs because it actually does work to help calm the nervous system down.
Spence: Ultrasound can image inside our body, so, it’s clearly a way to tap in somehow a sound. How can you deny things like music evoking feeling and emotion and healing just like smell, just like all these things? So, it was undeniable. Fast forward from boyfriend to 2000, you’re done school, and this is 2000, I’m dating myself, I understand all that, but what a different world like you said. You graduate now, and the people that are graduating now from Chinese medicine school are like, okay, well, here’s my options, and you were like, I don’t have any, what do I do.
Angela: I’m going to start a business, yeah. It was funny, because when I first got out of school, I was like, okay, well, I clearly need to get a job to be able to function, and there was zero acupuncture jobs. So, I started teaching home school to an autistic child. I was actually fortunate to find this really amazing family that I worked with that paid me very well to watch their autistic child and teach him just homeschool skills and stuff. That really allowed me to open a practice. I worked there part-time, and then I built my practice part-time. In about nine months to a year later, I was like, okay, I can quit my job and do this full-time, like, it just happened pretty organically in that way.
Spence: So, you’re in Portland. What kind of office did you step into at that time, were they like, you are what, you are an acupuncturist. Okay, can you pay rent, I don’t care. Where were you?
Angela: Yeah, well, I paid rent for a little while, and then the person who owned the business decided to sell it to the three of us that were there, so we actually purchased the business. It was a spa actually. They didn’t even have acupuncture in there. I actually begged them to let me in there. I was like, I really like this office, I really think you need acupuncture here. Let me be in here somehow, and finally, they were like, okay, and that was literally right before 2001. It was that year that I graduated.
Spence: A lot of people still would consider entering into a spa, and I wouldn’t even discount that. Because, I mean, it’s full of women and women talk, and here’s a great clientele base, because there, most spas are pretty full of women, either doing their nails or relaxing and wanting to be well on some level.
Angela: Yeah. Well, in this particular spa, it was just so beautiful. I was like, I have to work in this place. It was so amazing. I think environment for me has always really been important, what does my space look like, how does it make people feel when they come in, and so that was always really important to me. I was like, yes, this is it. I had this giant room with chairs and a table, and then eventually, we evolved, and I had to build walls because I needed more rooms, and it became like, okay, how can we maximize this space as much as possible to fit more people in there, because we got super busy.
Spence: And actually make a profitable company from the whole thing. A lesson we could all take from spas is the emphasis they put on experience. When women walk in, and I know you and I, both our practices primarily focus on women trying to start their families, they are struggling with fertility, and that’s usually a demographic somewhere between 28 to 45. And, yeah those are people that want to feel comfy and cozy, and like they’re walking into a clean, inviting, warm environment. I think that should translate into basically whatever demographic of a patient that you’re seeing. Do you agree with that?
Angela: Yeah. Sometimes, we’re the only time that people actually take a break, like, this is it. I had a patient yesterday who was laying on my table, and literally, I don’t think she has laid down and did nothing ever on purpose. She was kind of like brushing me off, like, I didn’t need to even come back and treat her because she was like, I’m good just laying here. I was like, no, I think I’ll actually treat you. It’s funny. Some people, they just never take the time to pay attention to what their needs are and that they might need that, you got to normalize the system every once in a while. That’s what I always say when I stick needles into people. I’m like, I’m just resetting the button, like kind of on your computer. You got to reset that, and if you keep just doing stuff, it’s going to get all messed up. Just like we’ve all had it happen. Your computer just gets overloaded with all this stuff and viruses and who knows what, it’s like you got to hit the reset button on that. The more you hit it, the cleaner things are and the better they are.
Spence: I love that analogy of reset, because hitting the reset button, that is something that I used as well. I literally say this to patients, and I believe it as well, that you just laying there and I’m going to make sure you do, so I pin you down, literally is where half of the healing starts. I think for the most part, it’s people who come to us and they end up learning. Again, it’s like, oh, I’m here. I thought this was a relaxation, but this actually is. Can you detail a little bit more about your progression, what kind of associates came into your clinic, was it acupuncturists as well?
Angela: Yeah, we had acupuncture, massage. We did have an esthetician for a while, and then she left. It was just acupuncture and massage – that was our main thing. After a few years, we built this amazing beautiful foot bathroom, where people can come and get foot soaks and foot massage and reflexology, and really it was a great way for people to just transition from this relaxation, and then they’d go into another room and get a massage and then go into another room and get acupuncture. I made these amazing beautiful three-hour experiences for people, so that they could get like herbal body wrap at massage and acupuncture treatments, lots of dry brushing, and things that we would be like, you should go do such things, we just would do them at the clinic. It was fun mixing this up. I get bored easily at work, so I was like how can we make something really cool that patients would love? They ended up being like a little higher ticket items. My goal always was how can I again work less and make more, so, I learned very quickly that people would pay out of pocket for massage and foot baths, like, that’s just customary, but when you kind of transition into the medical field, there’s this insurance realm. And insurance is really popular out here for people to have coverage for acupuncture. That became very clear, people wanted to pay $25 for the acupuncture, but they would pay $90 for a massage, and I was, like, hmm, what’s going on here. Something’s a little funny about the situation. I started creating these bigger packages for people, which is funny, I never really thought about that, but, yeah, that’s kind of like who I was way back in the day. And funny that I’m doing that now.
Spence: We get into things with this ideal and who we are, it’s authentic. And then we have to learn and we get trained and we try to maybe emulate people that we aren’t, and to create success or whatever it is. And then once that success comes, we realize, oh, I can and should be myself more again, so it’s more relaxing, enjoyable and fulfilling for me as well. And patients respond really well to that.
Angela: Yeah. I think you’re hitting on a really interesting thing that’s happening right now in marketing, it’s that people want that authenticity, they want that, they want the real you, they don’t want the fake you, they don’t want the ‘you’ that you’re trying to be, they want to really connect with people and not ideas or systems in that sense.
Spence: Or just regurgitating someone else’s stuff. There’s a need for it, but my lane at least is not to just kind of reiterate how to use Facebook ads or whatever. It’s timeless principles that we need to understand and step into, and that is just me being me. And from everything that I know you’re doing, you’re clearly being yourself. Just by the way you dress and you present yourself to the world, you’re clearly being yourself, and that’s why I think that you’ll do great and you’ll attract your tribe, not someone else’s.
Angela: For sure. I learned that very quickly for sure. I think in any sort of business when you start, especially with internet access nowadays, when you’re putting yourself out there, you get so much more feedback so much more quickly. It’s like you get instantaneous feedback so you know really well who you want to connect with, like it becomes very clear. And the more clear your message is, the more you’re going to attract those ideal people who want to hang out with your idea. Because in all intents and purposes, I was marketing in the beginning for a lot of people trying to just get as many patients as possible into their clinic, which was great, and I did that for a long time. And I can do that, but then I realized very quickly, it was kind of the same thing over and over again. And I was like, whoa, but I’m a creator, that’s my gift, I can create things out of nothing. I’m very good at leveraging and figuring out how people can take what they already are doing into how can they maximize that very quickly. The interesting shift in my message came when I started really wanting to attract those people who were change- makers. They’re out there wanting to really change things in the way that they’re done, not just, yeah, do the same thing as everyone else. Because businesses is pretty simple. Like, it’s not complicated. People overcomplicate it all the time, but you get clients in the door and then you got to keep them. It’s pretty simple. I think where I shifted was like, okay, I did that for a long time and had a busy practice, and then I was like, okay, what else is there. When you reach a certain level of success, you’re like, okay, well now what, how can I grow, how can I keep growing. Because for me, I’m kind of going down the rabbit hole of how I came to where I am now. But when I was super busy, I was like, okay, now I’m still stuck in this pattern of trading my time for dollars and not being able to expand other than bring on more associates. And so I built another clinic, brought on more associates. I just kept building this thing and making it more efficient and helped making it grow. But there was something still not quite right with it that I wanted more. I wanted a bigger impact. I’m still only able to be right here because I was spread a little bit too thin, trying to manage two clinics and run a full practice, and then grow and learn. I was like, I need more space. I need more space and time in my life to be able to do what I wanted to do. I had two kids and just got to a place where it’s like, wow, what are the other options out there. And so I started looking. I became the seeker myself. I was like, what else is out there, what else can I do to make the impact that I want to have, but also not be all-encompassing of my life of having to work all the time. Because I have two kids and I want to work on life balance, I love to play in the mountains, I love to go river rafting, and I love to enjoy my life here. That is why I’m here. How could I have both? That’s when I created the Eco-Fertility Method, and that was my first kind of higher-end program that I offered in my clinic. It was life-changing immediately, because I realized very quickly that people wanted it and they would pay for it. And also realizing I was like, huh, I don’t have to do this just in the clinic, I can do this anywhere.
Spence: So, you’re clearly an entrepreneur, you are defining yourself very clearly to me, and I get it because that is myself. Our journeys are quite similar. For those out there that aren’t aware of your eco-fertility method, can you give the elevator pitch or just cold notes on what it is and why you gave birth to it?
Angela: The biggest thing was finding that there was a need in my practice, for people wanted to talk about their stuff, they wanted to go deeper into why am I not good enough, why is my body not working, what’s wrong with me. They kept asking these really deep kind of questions that were not being addressed in my practice in a way that I thought was effective. There was also a lot of really simple things that I felt like everybody should know, that we tell them in the first visit or tell them in the second visit, then they forget. Or, I’d give them a handout and then they wouldn’t do it, they wouldn’t follow through. Or, they’d come in and they need to lose ten pounds, all of these like kind of more lifestyle and behavior issues that were not being addressed as effectively as I wanted them to be in the clinic. And I realized very quickly, I should just have something that just addresses that, so that’s where that came from. The Eco-Fertility Method is based on four main areas that we address: the physical health, the mental health, the financial health and the spiritual health. Because those are the ones that people most likely are dealing with when they’re looking to get pregnant. And everybody always is like, why do you put the financial one in there. And I was like, have you ever tried to have a baby, it’s very expensive. And money is one of the biggest stressors that we have as a society. That’s where that was born from, it’s really wanting to give people more of an experience versus just treatments.
Spence: I got a couple things that I want to rewind to a little bit, but define that with people that you work through, I know what happened with me. We get into acupuncture likely more from a mental, emotional, spiritual seeking out more energetic styles, otherwise, would be western physicians. And then once we learn and we get into it, a lot of practitioners tend to move into the mechanics, like you start just focusing on that one treasure, the Jing, the physical body and the mechanisms in it, and fixing that. And then, as you get experienced or bored with that, that’s got its limitations, you move back more into that spiritual realm. And even my body, spirit, financial, it does matter. We’re fee-for-service. Do you find that that’s a normal progression for a lot of people, as we’re learning our craft maybe?
Angela: I definitely think so. It’s very similar to yoga practice or meditation. Like, you first start in the physical realm, and then as you start with the physical practice and then as you get deeper into the practice, it becomes less physical and more psycho-spiritual, and who are you being in this world is more important than what you’re doing. So, yeah, definitely.
Spence: In my humble opinion, it’s where trusted medical practitioners need to dive into more, and I love it. Especially with fertility. I mean, most of my practice now is I get the mechanical side out of the way and put systems in place to try and bring that back into balance. But then that connection you make with the patient so you can talk about are you being grateful, are you praying, are you meditating, how can we help you cultivate perseverance, and surrender and having faith in the path that you’re on, and all these things that come with. And this is a segue to my other question, a confident practitioner maybe. People almost come to us expecting that level of esoteric nature in our practice, but to prove ourselves as a profession, maybe we’ve had to abandon that at least at the start with the patients, speak more medically and gain trust. So, it’s a bridge. Once you get experienced and confident, you know how to bridge that with the patient. Rewinding back about confidence, when someone’s just starting out or early into their practice, something that I found, you’ve had associates in a couple clinics similar to myself, is that when someone’s relatively green or brand-new out of school, the confidence is such a hurdle, being in the treatment room, because patients feel it? Have you helped people through that associates probably or people that have asked you for coaching?
Angela: For sure. I think the best thing that I can ever tell anyone is be the person that you want to treat. Like, be that person. If you are reflecting out into the world that you want your patients to have good lifestyle and eating well and doing all of the things that you are expecting them to do, then you need to be doing those things. You need to hold yourself at this high level of being, because that’s what they’re interacting with. If you’re frazzled and you’re not taking care of yourself and you’re burning your candle at both ends, you’re going to attract those clients and then you’re going to wonder why they’re not following through with your treatment plans. It’s like come on, like let’s get real here. It’s like parenting. This is where I love treating fertility clients because I think there’s this beautiful parallel that with treating the client as they’re trying to get pregnant, I’m like, this is a direct reflection of how you will parent. How you’re dealing with these really big obstacles is how you will deal with your child when they’re screaming and yelling at you because they didn’t do their homework and they don’t want to. They don’t want to hear it from you. How you take care of yourself is how you’re going to take care of your child. So, it’s that reflection. You not take care of yourself and then yell at your kids for not eating their vegetables. You have to drink the kool-aid yourself. It’s important.
Spence: Walk your talkie.
Spence: That’s great because everyone that talks about acupuncture business says something like, don’t put your needles on your website. But next level ends up being, especially in this day and age, where you say people want authenticity, there’s a certain degree of people paying for you. That’s why things as simple as not walking into your initial appointment with a computer in front of you staring at a form, or you should be prepared, you come in and you’re connecting with that person, so you can establish rapport. And then you can more be yourself and be the person that they’ll trust. We’re so in alignment there, and that’s a great advice to anyone. Because it happens so often that that’s not the case, right. And we don’t take care of ourselves because we’re trying so hard to take care of other people.
Angela: I think holding also on that same note, you kind of made me think of something really important is just really holding your clients is powerful. And holding your clients as smart, powerful people that can do anything, because if you’re coming in as a practitioner and thinking that you know everything and they don’t know anything, that’s the typical green practitioner that comes in. They’re like, I have all this knowledge and you don’t. And I think that when we do that, we’re really doing our clients a disservice, and thinking that they are not powerful and they have not been trying to heal themselves and do all of these things, they wouldn’t be in our office if they didn’t think that there was something that they didn’t know. But there’s also this really delicate balance of how can we give them what they really need and not everything that we think they need. Like there’s a little subtle difference there.
Spence: Well, it’s more of a partnership than a white coat deity sage on the stage kind of scenario. And sometimes that’s the case, but I would be lying if I didn’t say I’ve learnt more about the treatment of infertility from my patients than I ever could from a book.
Angela: No doubt, they live it, they breathe it, they’re researching constantly, they’re up on every new thing. I’m like, I haven’t even heard of that. I don’t know.
Spence: If you’re getting into the treatment of fertility, because you and I have both been doing that since early 2000’s focus practices, and a lot of people because of the inroads that so many of us have made in building trust with reproductive endocrinologists and such a lot of newer practitioners, I find hanging fertility treatment shingles, which is great. There’s something deeper that always has to be addressed in that connection with these patients. Even the reproductive endocrinologist get to get challenged by their patients, their knowledge, because quite commonly, they will be like diving into the research papers that physicians don’t even have time to read. You got to be on your toes for sure. It’s our job to try and help bring them out of that and balance them and stuff. We are speaking a lot to fertility, so maybe we can move past that a little bit now. You got out of school in 2000 in Portland, here I am, you grew, you grew, your clinic was bustling. You opened a second clinic and that’s bustling too. I assume they are both in Portland, right?
Angela: I since sold the other one, so now, I’m down to just one, which is good.
Spence: What you’re talking about so much about what you are wanting to do, I would use the word, maybe it’s more of a masculine explanation, but you’re like, how can I scale myself. That’s why you’re doing the things you’re doing, that’s why I wrote a book about online fertility coaching programs or whatever it’s doing. And that’s why you grew a clinic and trained your associates, I would assume to kind of treat the way you were having success.
Angela: Yeah. I got to that realm of, okay, now what. Because once you’re full, you’re full, you don’t have any more time or space to grow. And I was like, I don’t really want to open a third clinic, that was not my dream. This whole online thing started to really open up, and I realized, wow, I could have an online business. And so I started an online business, and I started training people to do the Eco – Fertility Method, and it was amazing. It was the most amazing gift I could have ever given myself because these people that went through my training, they’re amazing people. I was like, wow, like this changed their lives so much. Just going through the program and learning it, it changed their lives, which was kind of amazing. I was like, oh my gosh, the exponential of how many people could be helped by this work was, it kind of dawned on me. I was like, so every person that I trained, if they use this work in their clinic — because once you learn it, you can’t unlearn it. It changes your world. And then, I was like, and how many people are they going to be able to help with this work. It proliferates in this way, that’s so cool. I’m like, it’s generational. When I really realized I’m not just helping the clinicians be able to do this work, but they’re helping their clients learn these techniques and these tools to use throughout their life. And then they’re going to have babies, and they’re going to teach their kids this work. And it’s exponentially, it’s beautiful, it’s like this really cool thing. So now, it became like I have to do it, I have to. I have to get it out there, I have to train people, there’s no excuses for not doing it.
Spence: I wonder, it just came to my mind that, because at the start we said, amazing scene where acupuncture as you’ve seen it change from 2000 to now. It’s just the common knowledge, and almost everyone’s tried it or has an acupuncturist, the same thing kind of has happened at the same time, and maybe it’s partly due to acupuncturists really trying to help raise awareness with fertility. I mean, the awareness of fertility and its impact and the options that are out there, etc, also has changed in that same little pocket of time. Maybe that’s partly responsible.
Angela: Yeah. I think it’s a really needy thing what’s happening right now. I think the internet is just blowing my mind of the impact and the reach that we can have just being able to do this. I get to play with the most amazing people ever, like I can’t even believe my clients, they’re amazing change-makers. They’re like leadership, really making an impact on the world, which is a big part of my mission. Like, how can we really use this knowledge in this work that we have to change the world in a positive way? Because some people I think are great in a certain realm, and then there’s some people like myself, I’m never satisfied, I will never have that, like, I’m done. There’s always something that I will want to do, how can I grow bigger, how can I grow stronger, how can I make a bigger impact with what I want to do, how can I reach more people. And I think there’s just certain people who are like that. And sometimes being in a practice can be limiting at certain times of your life. One of the things I think about a lot now is being able to take your skills online and be able to create something out of the gifts that you have. It’s almost essential for some people. For me, like a few years ago, my mom became ill with congestive heart failure, and I realized very quickly that I can’t just get up and leave my practice for six months or a year or whatever. I couldn’t even leave for a couple of weeks at that point in time, and I was really saddened by that. I was like, wow, what do I do, how do I make this work. Because I want to still be able to work, but if you have an ailing family member, it’s not like you’re going to just let that go. That’s a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Or having a baby even. I was very fortunate to be able to take four months off each time I had a baby and be able to go back part-time. And I think having that flexibility and freedom in a practice or having that just be a back-up plan, it’s been something that I’ve been really passionate about helping providers and people in that realm of trading their time for dollars. How they can get away from that, take their business online, take it to a place where they have something else that they can use as a backup or even maybe a potential evolution of their practice. Because, yes, some people are just too small for the practice, or it just doesn’t fit with what they envision their life to be like. I love to travel. The first time I made a deal with myself, and I’ll tell this story because it’s a great story, I made a deal with my friend and myself that if I launched my program and I made $10,000 that I would go to Greece. I was like, this was my big incentive to myself. I was like, I hadn’t traveled out of the country other than Canada, and I was like, what am I doing. I need to do this, I’m super passionate about traveling, and I was like, why am I not doing this all the time. And I was like, oh, because I don’t have $5,000 in the bank to take off work and buy a $5,000-trip to somewhere where I want to go. It’s expensive to even just take one person. And it was like so funny, because a couple weeks later, I had this money in my bank account because I made enough to do it. I was like, wow, I guess I’m going to Greece. It was like this really funny thing. I had made this money very quickly, I had totally created this beautiful thing that I got out to the world, and I was in Greece. I was like, wow, this is crazy, this is my life now. It was really eye-opening, and in that way, where you’re like, yes, this is exactly what I want to do all the time.
Spence: This is what’s possible for acupuncturists, and that’s where your fuel came from. How I would frame what you’re explaining is, and we’ve said it a few times, you’re an entrepreneur, I get it, same thing. Always that striving for more is what I would call actually creating a business. There’s people that are running a practice, and that’s different than operating a clinic, and that’s different than owning a business, and then the next step is maturing it into a company that is profitable. If you do value time and freedom, which clearly you do, and I think that’s the driving force behind most entrepreneurs, and maybe why a lot of acupuncturists got into acupuncture too is because they thought they’d be in charge of things.
Angela: They think they are going to be in charge of like five hundred thousand people.
Spence: Exactly. Getting to know who you are is a good first step. I know people that just love practice, that’s all they want to do, and that’s great. I’ll find my two weeks off a year and I’ll make pretty good money. There’s people that want to kind of run a clinic and like that collaborative of a little bit, half the time it’s Kairos massage and all this, altogether, not really a cohesive unit. And then there’s people like yourself or myself that really value time. And that came to me big time after I’ve got three boys. I want to spend time with them but I also love to work, and I want to contribute to my industry and to people and scale as well. So, no big tasks, I’ve had it all. So, knowing who you are, and then finding the right help. You’re touching on how to get online. That would be to me a great avenue, almost for a practitioner, but in particular, more someone who does want to enter the business realm and have a bit of practice, have a bit of online venture, and maybe have a bit of like event or retreat, creation or whatever these kinds of three realms are. You’ve got something going on here, and I would love you to pitch it, just talk about it, because it is so near and dear to me. Right now, I am studying how to understand my presence online and how to leverage that probably with this exact same fervor that I studied Chinese medicine with. I love it, it’s super fun. But you’ve got something that you have packaged up nicely about trying to — I’m going to let you take over, tell people about the Signature Program experts. Is that it?
Angela: Yeah. It all kind of started from this like healer to leader kind of idea that I had, kind of the evolution of the healer going through the growth process of what it’s like over time, and then kind of how my life turned out where I was like, okay, well, I did the practice, I did that and then I started teaching, and then I did that and then I was like, okay, well, then what, what’s the next thing. It’s to kind of do some big-ass world-changing stuff, like I wanted to go bigger. And I think that what I’ve created has been such a beautiful thing, because now I help people, wellness professionals mainly, create high ends packages and programs and educational programs that they can use all over the world and teach people all over the world.
Spence: You’re helping other people scale.
Angela: Yes. I’m helping other people scale. I’ll usually work with people to create anywhere from — we kind of have a sense of somewhere in a $3,000 mark packaged up to $10,000. There’s no limitation on how you can put things together, but basically taking people’s unique gifts and creating a structured program or a structured offer so that people can take it online. And you can do it in person though, I did do mine in person for quite some time. I’m helping someone right now create a retreat for fertility clients, and I know there’s been people in the past who have done that. So, she’s got this really unique location and she’s got all of these really great things that she can bring into it. The cool thing is we all have a lot of gifts that we’re not even bringing to the table to use in the practice. People have all kinds of backgrounds they came from. This is kind of this opportunity to take all of those things and create something bigger. create something that you can serve people all over the world with. I kind of have a little tagline, taking your practice from local to global and having that bigger impact. But the real value of it is to be able to leverage your skills and use them to not just impact more people but to make more money and to be able to have more flexibility, because you’re not trading your time for dollars. It’s not based on having to see as many patients as possible. It’s like, now, I’ll get paid monthly overtime for something that I delivered. It takes away that pressure. I can like take a couple of weeks off if I want, I’ll just stop enrolling people. And some of my products are evergreen, so, I don’t have to do anything, they just take the program and they do it on their own and they go through it, which is pretty nice too. Giving people flexibility and freedom, I think is really what I can give back to people. It is giving back their time, which is something that we don’t get much of in this life. I feel it’s so important to have that backup, have that flexibility so now I have options like, I don’t have to practice. I make enough money online now doing consulting that I don’t have to practice. I like to practice. It gives me this like amazing feeling to go in there and be able to help people and support them. Now, I have options. I’m not stuck in this place, where I was a few years ago. I was like, wow, I don’t have this flexibility.
Spence: For those of you who don’t understand, the term evergreen is typically a term given to online programs of some sort that are automated, so you don’t have to do much after it’s set up. This is signatureprogramexpert.com.
Angela: signatureprogramexpert.com. They actually put together a webinar for people so they can kind of learn the science behind what it looks like to break down the numbers and how that looks, and that’s a signatureprogramexpert.com/webinar.
Spence: We will put all these links in the show notes that you sent me. Those are live webinars?
Angela: Right. Live webinars.
Spence: Webinars are a great way and a great tool that people are using these days if for the less literate online marketing to give basically mini trainings. So, there can be a ton of value just in going to watch this hour with Angela, and you don’t have to opt into anything. But if it really resonates with you – awesome. Because there’s probably a deal in it for you as well. I encourage people to go to that for sure because what Angela is on to, if you do value your time and your freedom and you want to scale and you’ve got a message and a skill set and gifts that you want to bring to more people or teach to more practitioners or whatever, I think it’s your duty to. I really love what Angela is doing here. It’s important for us all to keep up not only with traditional Chinese medicine but what’s going on in the business landscape, and that’s why the Golden Cabinet primarily exists. And what you’re doing, I love that. Can you give any like words of encouragement or final words? I don’t want to keep you too long unless there’s more that you want to chitchat about. Final words about mentors or coaching, because ultimately, I wouldn’t be where I am today if I didn’t put the money down sometimes. And even when I didn’t have any to get someone who knows better to like give me a leg up or raise my spirit or teach me a new skill. Obviously you advocate for the same thing, but throughout your career maybe, who have been your mentors that got you practicing and held a racket there, and then more now bleeding into events or online ventures – who are some people that you’d encourage people to maybe check out?
Angela: Honestly, my dad has been the biggest mentor ever. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family, so, my dad was always making something out of nothing, and he really showed me that if you have a good idea and you think that it might be worth something, just go for it, do it. There is no limitation to what we can do, we’re only limited by our own selves. But technically speaking, yeah, so many people, like you said, Tim Ferriss, I’ve read all of his stuff. Russell Brunson, ClickFunnels. I do a lot of online marketing training because that for me is a big part of what I do. Big names out there, Jeff Walker, who else, Frank, so many. I definitely am more in that, which I don’t think most people would. It’s not for everybody. I think that for me, I really, really enjoy marketing and I’ve always enjoyed it. I’ve always enjoyed the whole process of it. I worked with some of my best mentors, Carey Peters and Stacey Morgenstern. I mean, they’re like running the health coach revolution right now. They are some of the most amazing people I worked with and really enjoyed their work. So many, Kendall Hawk, let’s see who else is out there.
Spence: I’m like a Pat Flynn guy. I love Amy Porterfield as well. For the female side, my wife loves Gabrielle Bernstein and a lot of those new age spiritual teachers who are also bleeding into online teaching and coaching.
Angela: Even Bill Baron and Tony Robbins.
Spence: Who doesn’t love Tony.
Angela: Yeah. There’s so many amazing people out there that are just killing it in the online market space. But the interesting thing is, they’re doing business to business, and I think for entrepreneurs and people that are in the wellness community, their biggest market is going to be business to consumer. Like, their biggest market is going to be really helping the people who don’t have access to what we have. So, going into those underserved markets where they don’t even know what the five elements are or they don’t know how to take care of themselves. They’re eating out of whatever McDonald’s they can find. That’s where I think the real impact that we can have and where we can take our gift, so you don’t have to learn all of the business stuff. The business stuff, it’s harder and it’s more complicated, it’s more expensive than it is to do a business to consumer, where you’re really reaching out to just all the people versus business. It’s a much more easier market. I mean, you can talk to any marketing person and they’ll tell you that. They will be like, don’t go to the business route, don’t do that.
Spence: Unless you want to be a business owner, then, yes. I want to kind of put a bow on this a little bit and re-simplify for people, and see if you agree with the statement that ultimately everything we’ve talked about is great, and there’s so much that can be done, and teachers and mentors and paths to take. But ultimately, it’s about the person that’s inside, and that person needs to become the person that you know can manifest the life that you want. Does that make sense? It’s about the person you become in order to achieve the goal versus just shooting at the goal. I want to reiterate that anyone that’s kicked ass in life, anyone of these people we’re talking about, their focus on relentless, personal, spiritual mind-body growth and health is admirable. Tony Robbins meditates, he’s crazy. If you’re not, that’s something to look at.
Angela: I think that’s a really great, great thing. I’ll try to wrap it up too here, but I could go on all day. I think about all these really great people who are kicking ass and doing a lot of things, yeah, they didn’t get there on their own, and they were not afraid to ask for help ever in their life. And they always have someone by their side that is like rooting for them, whether that’s their partner or their business partner or their coach or whoever it is, they have someone who they can go to at any time and be like, yeah, shit’s fucked up, like we need some help, like get me through this path. Because you’re going to fail, you’re going to have hard times, you’re going to have stuff that’s messed up. And the best thing is to find the help and ask for help when you need it, and don’t think that you have to do it all by yourself, because you don’t. There’s no reason to. Life is short.
Spence: We all need our personal board of advisers. It’s just a fact, right?
Spence: Anyway, thank you so much. Like I said probably 20 minutes ago, I should let you go.
Angela: We had a lot to talk about.
Spence: Yeah, and we could probably go on and on. I think the idea is that I’ve been toying with this, that I’m going to be checking in on somewhat almost a yearly basis with everyone that I interview. Because, ‘hey, what’s happened?’ Some people over time see a journey, and what might be new or changing or what’s focusing on, because I’m excited to see how everyone in our industry is evolving and growing. Like you said, it’s changed in the last 18 years, the next 18, who knows what’s going to happen.
Angela: Right, who knows. I’m excited to see though.
Spence: Cool. Well, anywhere else you want people to come find you?
Angela: Acubizconsulting – that’s my main page, and then the Integrative Fertility Institute is my other one yeah.
Spence: And of course, Facebook probably.
Angela: Yeah. Facebook, you can totally message me.
Spence: Awesome. Well, everybody, check out Angela’s stuff. She’s onto something here, I just know it. Everyone that I am learning from as well is resonating the same words. And if any of this is resonating with you, go to Angela and check out what she’s got going on. That webinar would be a great place to start. I hope you have a wonderful day, we are on the same time zone, so it’s about noon now. It’s time to eat, and we’ll catch up with you again soon.
Angela: Alright, thank you so much. Namaste.